Tony Scott: 0:13

Welcome to The Jay Franze Show, a behind-the-curtain look at the entertainment industry, with insights you can't pay for and stories you've never heard. Now here's your host, Jay Franze.

Jay Franze: 0:42

Well, hello, hello, hello and welcome to the show. I am Jay Franze and this is your Backstage Pass to the Music Industry. This week we get to talk with a recording artist. We get to talk with John McEwen. He's a solo artist as well as a founding member of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. We'll talk to him about the impact that a young paperboy had on his career, what it was like growing up with Steve Martin, and we'll discuss his latest book, the Life I've Picked. Now, john, he's a great musician, a storyteller and just an all-around great guy, and I can't wait to talk with him tonight. So if you would like to join in, comment or fire off any questions, please head over to jayfranze. com now let's get started.

Jay Franze: 1:30

Let let's go ahead and jump right in.

John McEuen: 1:38

Can you tell me about the impact that a young paperboy had on you? In 1967, when I was starting the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band with a bunch of other guys, I saw this newsman and he was a crippled guy, he had cerebral palsy and he's driving a motor scooter and he'd get off and he'd go in the restaurant and he would sell newspapers up and down Sunset Boulevard, in the restaurants, in the record stores, in the record companies, the agencies, the lawyer offices. He'd get into all of them and it was like, hey, steve's here, marty, you want a paper? Yeah, send him in. You know, it would be like he became a ritual in Hollywood.

John McEuen: 2:25

And I was starting with the nitty gritty Dirk band and I saw him in that first week. We were on the road, we were heading to Boston. It was 5.30 in the morning and I was going oh man, this is really tough, this is a hard job 5.30, we're not going to get there until whatever you know. And I saw this guy. I went wait a minute, that's a hard job 5 30 in the morning. He's driving uphill on sunset boulevard at about eight miles an hour and I saw him the next couple weeks I got home and I saw him several, several times selling newspapers at different parts of Sunset. He'd always come through Ben Frank's restaurant and that guy, it made it hard for me to complain about having a hard job, of course, right In the banjo, you know, in the banjo, you know.

Jay Franze: 3:32

The reason I bring up that story is because that story it kicks off your album the Newsman.

John McEuen: 3:38

Yes.

Jay Franze: 3:39

And that album to me is the way that music used to be, with storytelling and so forth in it. So can you tell me how the idea, the concept for that album came about?

John McEuen: 3:52

I loved ever since. Before I started playing music you got trouble, my friends right here in River City I'm sure I'm a billiard player, certainly mighty proud to say, I'm always mighty proud to say it. I loved the way the rhythm of that went and I started playing music and I got the Mountain Whippoorwill. I did it on stage for 30 years with an itty gritty dirt band up in the mountains. It's lonesome all the time. This poem about the fiddle contest, which, uh, I haven't also put out with a children's book, Nice, In conjunction with my album, that's very cool artwork too.

John McEuen: 4:33

Yeah, oh, I'm glad you think so, thank you, it's got the various fiddle players Love it. Forward by Steve Martin.

Jay Franze: 4:43

Yeah, he and.

John McEuen: 4:43

I used to do the Whippoorwill together Back when I was 19.

Jay Franze: 4:50

He was a friend of yours in high school.

John McEuen: 4:53

Yeah, and I taught him how to play the banjo. But he said I want to do this story, let me play banjo behind it. He couldn't play the banjo and do the story.

Jay Franze: 5:06

My how times have changed.

John McEuen: 5:08

It was the first standing ovation. I remember we were playing a little concert at a college. I don't know how we got the job, but I don't know why we got the job. We're only 20 years old and we could do something. I guess that's why they hired us. But we did the Whip-A-Will and I played the banjo and it ended.

John McEuen: 5:31

There was about 300 people there and it was absolutely silent and I looked at Steve. I go did we bomb? What happened? And then the place just exploded and everybody stood up clapping and it was like How'd that feel? It felt great. I wanted more. I wanted a lot more. I wanted to do that again. You know, it was wonderful. And when Steve and I worked in the magic shop, that's what got me into being in front of people wanting to be there. That was in high school as well, right, senior year of high school. And then the next couple college years in Southern California working in the Disneyland Anaheim Disneyland Right, the place where I had been my freshman, sophomore and junior years. Well, actually just freshman and sophomore I'd successfully climbed the fence to get in 14 times.

John McEuen: 6:35

I got caught the 15th it has to come to an end yeah, it came to an end, but then I got a job there what was it like growing up down there?

John McEuen: 6:49

well, you know, I thought it was okay. Well, you know, I thought it was okay. And of course I was in Garden Grove, which is like a homogenized part of LA Orange County, and I was working in Disneyland. Disneyland, oh boy. But I love Disneyland. So did Steve, and he worked there from 11 years old selling guidebooks, and then popcorn, and then Stockboy and stuff, and anyway, I met him at 16. I was doing magic, it was really fun.

Jay Franze: 7:28

I met him once in Nashville. I got to work with him at a show that he did in Nashville.

John McEuen: 7:35

I mean, he's a very talented man as well. Oh yeah, he keeps me going more than he realizes. We used to have little contests about who was doing what better when, and all that Bill managed Steve, my brother Bill and he managed him and he made his movie deals, made four albums with him and worked with him for about 15, 16 years.

Jay Franze: 8:00

Well, that's a good point too. You mentioned his albums. I mean, he's known for being a comedian above everything else and your music. If we go back to the news man, your music has an element of humor in it as well, for example the opening song, fly Trouble. Can you tell me how you incorporate humor and did it go back to those days?

John McEuen: 8:20

I think humor is funny. Oh, of course.

Jay Franze: 8:26

You're going to be my new favorite. I know that for sure.

John McEuen: 8:30

But one thing when I started playing music I'm not much of a, I can't sing, okay, I sing like I can deliver a funny song, but I found out that the talking stuff worked better. I remember the first song I learned.

Tony Scott: 8:50

Well, I've learned I play the guitar. I'm well I played the guitar.

John McEuen: 8:53

I'm 17 years old. It was like every time I come to town, the boys keep kicking my dog around. Makes no difference if he is a hound. They got to quit kicking my dog around, you know, and people liked it and it was weird because I didn't write it. I got it out of a folk song book, I just learned it and, gee, I'm doing something when they're actually listening and they like it. So I started finding those stories.

Jay Franze: 9:26

So when you're doing this, do you think of that in advance? I mean, are you trying to make the songs humorous?

John McEuen: 9:36

I appreciate the stories and the humor you know the stories, the talking records, arlo Guthrie, alice's Restaurant, devil Went Down to Georgia. Fly Trouble, hank, senior, king Tut, they've been around. They just haven't been around for 15, 20 years. And anyway, as far as Nashville, I never paid attention much to trying to work with the Nashville mold, you know, or whatever people were doing, which is obvious, but that's how you have a career sometimes. On this album, on the Newsman album, david Hoffner, he played on keyboards on Cremation of Sam McGee, keyboards on Cremation of Sam McGee, and he really put in those the electric piano. That's right where they needed to be. And his bass thing, he's really good.

Jay Franze: 10:44

Let's talk about that. For a session, I mean, or for a second, you go in the studio. What type of recording session do you have? Because traditionally, bluegrass music is played all at one time. When country music, they get the foundation of a band to go in and play at one time, but then they do a series of overdubs. So what was the recording process like for your record?

John McEuen: 11:06

Each cut was different. Some of the cuts I played all the music Like Killed at the Fort. That's all the music like Killed at the Fort. That's all me doing bass, guitar, mandola, mandolin kind of thing and Slide Trouble. I just played acoustic guitar and lap slide and that's a bunch of Nashville players. They were really hot, really good session players. You know Joe Osborne on bass and some other great people. So where was it recorded?

Jay Franze: 11:40

that was recorded in Nashville do you remember the studio Woodland Woodland? Okay, so it was over in East Nashville yeah, it's not there anymore.

John McEuen: 11:49

It got burned down or something. Did it really? I didn't know that, at least that's what I heard. Somebody said that's where we recorded the Circle Be Unbroken album. Okay, old Rivers. You've listened to the album. I take it. Yes, sir, yeah, old Rivers. Really no big secret, it was just did it there. Did it in about three, four hours Last October. Very cool. I loved the old rivers man. I listen to that thing now and it's like it takes me back to a place I've never been because I didn't know any old men that plowed fields. But I really relate to that song because one of these days I'm going to climb that mountain, walk up there among the clouds you know, it just sounds so good when the cotton's high and the corn is growing and there ain't no fields to plow. No fields to plow. Yeah, and it just. It was fun doing old rivers. Well, doing all of it was fun.

Jay Franze: 12:59

It comes across that way and the way you tell a story, even just now telling the story, you add personality to it and it's it's different than the typical. The typical stories like, like I mentioned again, nashville and country music it's built around story. But yours are truly built around stories and they come across dramatic.

John McEuen: 13:19

Well, I'm glad it's not overdramatic. No, not at all, because, boy, I recorded a couple of these and I listened back and, oh man, that's too far over the edge. Quit being an actor and act better or act it out whatever you know.

Jay Franze: 13:38

Well, you mentioned that you have a very wide history of things working in radio television. You're an author, you're a writer, you're a concert promoter. I mean, you've done everything.

John McEuen: 13:49

You know. I don't see it that way. I see it like I've got to do something this month. What will it be? Oh, I know I could promote a concert, because the dirt band wasn't always working. I needed to make money to feed my six kids. I thank them for trying to be something more than just a banjo player.

Jay Franze: 14:21

That's what I say every time I go to work. I always say it's because my wife likes to eat.

John McEuen: 14:28

I can't say that. I better not say that, yeah, I eat too much. Does this make me look fat? No, that doesn't make you look fat. Oh, so I look fat.

Jay Franze: 14:42

Right, it's a no-win situation. I'm very familiar with that story, so what was it like collaborating with the Oak Ridge Boys?

John McEuen: 14:53

Oh, it was great.

John McEuen: 14:54

They were big fans of the Dirt Band back in the 70's and when I called them to come to the studio to see if they'd want to do the session, they played on a couple of cuts. They played on hey Joe and Sleepwalk and anyway I got to the studio around, they played on a couple of cuts. They played on hey Joe and Sleepwalk. Anyway, I got to the studio around 8 o'clock or so for a 10 o'clock session. I was really nervous. This is the Oak Ridge Boys coming in and although they looked up to us, I looked up to them.

Jay Franze: 15:33

I think we all have at some point.

John McEuen: 15:35

But this is in the mid-70s, late-70s. Anyway, I get to the studio and there's a bus in the parking lot and I go oh, that's interesting, and I wonder when the Oak Ridge boys are going to get here. At 9 o'clock they came rumbling off that bus and went in and washed up and and nine 30, they stuck their head in the studio and said we're here and they'd played a state fair in Indiana, indiana. And uh, they just drove from Indiana down to the studio and parked the bus in the parking lot and waited. They stayed in their bunks and whatever you know, and then they're going to go home after the sessions. I couldn't pay them, they wouldn't let me pay them.

Jay Franze: 16:23

Well, that's pretty cool.

John McEuen: 16:25

Oh yeah, they were. They were so gracious.

Jay Franze: 16:28

Yeah, I had an opportunity. I have a, I have three daughters, I have a 14 year old a 14 year old, a 9 year old and a 2 year old.

Jay Franze: 16:36

I am this old and I'm having a 2 year old. However, I took my 9 year old and we went to see the Oak Ridge Boys a couple weeks ago. It was really cool and she got to go backstage and meet everybody William Lee Golden he's been on the show and my daughter got to go backstage and he was so nice to her, took pictures with her and everything. And then he looks down at her and says look, I know you have no idea who I am and that you probably don't want to be here tonight, but it means a lot to me and I appreciate the fact that you're here.

Jay Franze: 17:08

It sounds like William Lee and it just made her night. She just felt so special that night to be backstage, to have him talk to her like that, and then we got to go sit at front of house and watch the show and she was just thrilled For a 9-year-old to be able to do that. It was awesome and he was just so, so nice to her.

John McEuen: 17:28

That's great yeah.

Jay Franze: 17:31

I wanted to talk to you about too. I live in Kentucky, right on the border of Cincinnati, and we have a suspension bridge that was designed by John Roebling and it was designed in 1869, there was a bridge that he designed right afterwards it was the Brooklyn Bridge, which you have a picture of, yourself in front of the Brooklyn Bridge for an album called Roots Music Made in Brooklyn. Yeah, so can you tell us a little bit about that album?

John McEuen: 18:06

I was playing the club, the Iridium in New York City, which is a famous jazz club that Les Paul used to play every Monday night, and I was loading out midnight and you had to go to the elevator, go up and you're in another building. You weren't in the building the way it works in New York, because sometimes you have to go up and come out their entrance and I had a guitar, a banjo, mandolin, fiddle and then the guitar of the guy that was playing with me and he'd gone around to get the car and bring it around to the street. And the elevator came to the ground floor. There the security guard started hassling me hey, you can't hold that elevator up. I said what it's? One in the morning, there's nobody here, you never know it's like. And this guy comes out of the elevator and sees this going on, sees me going. You know I'm sorry, but I'll have this stuff. I'm leapfrogging this stuff up to the front and he jumps in and helps me and and he I'm surprised you didn't rip that security guard, a new one or whatever. I said, look, he's just doing his job. Right, and his job and my job kind of clash for a minute and as long as I get out of his way, everything will be fine.

John McEuen: 19:29

And that guy says what is your name? Mitty Gritty Dirt Band? Hey, I have a record company upstairs. Anyway, that was Norman Chesky. He owns Chesky Records. They make the best sounding records in the business. They use one microphone, really One microphone, a special stereo mic. Anyway, we talked. He says you want to do an album? I said sure. And he came to a show a couple days later. I was doing it out in New Jersey and I brought a guy with him and I ended up doing a record with him a couple months later and I called up David Bromberg and hey, david, would you come play on? A couple months later. And I called up David Bromberg and hey, david, would you come play on a couple?

Jay Franze: 20:22

songs. Well, can I play on more? Yeah?

John McEuen: 20:23

sure, Play on whatever you want. Yeah, and so I'd known Bromberg since 1970. When I met him at a club he was backing up Jerry Jeff Walker and they were playing to about 15 people.

Jay Franze: 20:38

There's a song on that record that I wanted to talk to you about. Get some of the inspiration behind it. It's my Favorite Dream, oh, it kind of has an old-time feel. The way the drum has the brushes to it and then has the background vocals. It kind of just makes it feel like it's an older song.

John McEuen: 20:57

Yeah, great Wanted to make it sound like it was cut by a, an old jazz band or something. Right, it was written by Felice Bryant, felice and Boudlo his wife. I mean it was written by Boodle O'Brien. Felice was his wife. They wrote a lot of the Everly Brothers hits. They wrote Rocky Top. They wrote Love Hurts. They were one of the Nashville's best writing teams, sounds like it. This song came to me from Del Bryant, who's a friend of mine. He's their son and he was running BMI. He ran BMI for 15 years. I met him in 1973 when he was a president of BMI.

Jay Franze: 21:45

The Performing Rights Organization.

John McEuen: 21:47

Right, thank you. And he said hey, you're doing this album. Would you be interested in doing one of my dad's songs that nobody's recorded? Yes, let me think about it. Yeah, and he sent it over and I got Matt to sing it. Anyway, it was really neat.

Jay Franze: 22:09

So what was the recording process like for that? Was that one of the one-microphone songs?

John McEuen: 22:15

Yes, the Maiden Brooklyn album is all one mic, all first takes, and it was the real recording, the way people are supposed to make records. How long does it take to make a hit record? Oh, about three minutes. You know not anymore. About three months is now what it is. He records in an old church in Brooklyn. His brother, norm's brother, david, is the engineer and David and I produced the record and stuff. But John Carter Cash, steve Martin, andy Gessling who was an incredible musician Matt Karsonis, nancy Redbone all these people came together. Some of the songs had 14 people on them. We rehearsed the music first before we went in to record it and you'd go through the song and the engineer would come out and go. You need to move over there. You need to move in closer. You should move back a little bit. Okay, let's run it one more time. We'd run it again and he goes okay, almost good Guitar move. Almost good Guitar move in two feet and that would be giving you the mix Right.

Jay Franze: 23:41

Mixing it live.

John McEuen: 23:43

And it was like incredible. I didn't get it until we laid down the first song and I went in and listened to it play back and I thought I can't tell if this is live or Memorex. It sounded live. And the Made in Brooklyn album is one of my best accomplishments, I think, because you have a stereo picture right left and you mix things to be in that stereo thing.

John McEuen: 24:18

But they understand how frequencies work. You ever wonder why you can hear something fall behind you. You can hear a bird chirp up in the tree. You can hear it chirp over there. You could hear a truck coming when it's coming from. Oh, it's an airplane. You know you hear an airplane. Why is it you don't hear in a record? You hear right to left. Well, they know how to make it. They can make it almost like surround sound. Right, because you can put play this record back made in Brooklyn and the mandolin sounds like it's coming out over there. And my daughter I send her a copy she goes dad, I wish you would have warned me. I didn't know. What did you do? How did you record this? I thought there was somebody behind me. It scared me. I kept thinking there was somebody behind me coming in the house or something, did that in two days Two days. On the other hand, the Newsman album, I took 12 years.

Jay Franze: 25:36

So that's just what we want to see. You want to be able to experience both sides of it. Yeah Well, you also mentioned again having Steve Martin play with you. What was it like growing up with Steve Martin?

John McEuen: 25:52

It was fun when I produced his album. He wasn't funny. It would be like, you know, we rehearsed the music and it's like, look, okay, that went pretty good, everybody okay. Okay, here we go again. One, two, three and he would do a three-minute song. He would rehearse maybe 14 times in an hour. You know, it would be, it was okay. It would just, he really works at it, he plays his music like it was a script.

Jay Franze: 26:47

Yeah, he told me that night. He told me that music was his passion. That's really what he enjoyed doing most.

John McEuen: 26:55

Mm-hmm, I believe that here he is being serious and stuff, I mean just not being funny. And we're in the studio and I'm in the control room and I push the buttons and say Steve, you've got to count this one off. He goes oh okay, ready, everybody, one. Say Steve, you got to count this one off. He goes oh, okay, ready everybody. One, two, three, four. No, steve, wait a minute, stop, you can't say the last number. You have to leave the last number silent, because we're in the studio and Echo was like oh okay, I get it. Okay, everybody ready, ready. Okay, here we go. And he goes one, two, four.

Jay Franze: 27:39

Yeah, not funny at all.

John McEuen: 27:42

Yeah, and that just cracks everybody up, you know. Thanks for the two minutes off Steve while everybody recovered. Thanks for the two minutes off Steve while everybody was covered.

Jay Franze: 27:53

Well, you play pretty much all the instruments, the stringed instruments anyway. How did that come about?

John McEuen: 28:00

I started playing guitar. My brother was showing me how to play guitar At 17 years old. I learned things like freight train, you know, you know that song. It was quite a while before I could go, but I couldn't do anything that he couldn't do, and he showed me how to go, and I heard the Dillards one night when I was 17 and a half, and that really took me away, took me over to a different planet, and I I met Rodney Dillard. Where does this music come from? How do you do this? I want to play the banjo. I don't have one. And he said well, take the fifth string off your guitar, put a first string on there and then put an HO railroad spike at the fifth fret and you'll have a banjo. Get rid of the sixth string. You don't need it, and it's just that easy. I went home and did that, but I didn't know how to tune it, so I had to go see him again. How do I tune this thing, though?

Jay Franze: 29:35

Well, his band had a big impact on you as well, didn't it?

John McEuen: 29:39

Yes, I started watching them. I watched them an average of once or twice a week Because they were playing in LA, everywhere in LA, they would play the Ice House for a week, they'd play the Troubadour for a week and then the Golden Bear for a week and maybe the Paradox for two weeks. I was just hanging out, 17 1⁄2, 18 years old, right Watching Doug Dillard like a hawk.

Jay Franze: 30:10

Is that when you knew that music was the way to go?

John McEuen: 30:12

I'd just finished three years in the magic shop and I knew I didn't want to work for a living. I wanted to do things, make things Silly. Didn't want to work for a living, so I got in a job where you have to travel 12 hours to play for an hour and then do another 12 hours in the bus. But, that's not work. That's part of the fun, sure. So yeah, that was. I wanted to be an entertainer, a musician, a troubadour. Live the dream, you know 11,000 shows later.

Jay Franze: 30:50

Here we are. Yeah, did you ever think it was going to be 11,000 shows at that time?

John McEuen: 30:58

I thought it would be 12, did you?

Jay Franze: 31:00

yeah, that makes more sense, then I'm not done yet that's true, although now I'm done only about a.

John McEuen: 31:09

well, I think I did 85 or 90 shows last year and then COVID, that was like maybe 20.

Jay Franze: 31:17

Yeah, how did COVID affect you? I mean, I know how it affected everybody, but the career, what were you doing during COVID?

John McEuen: 31:25

I did 26 Facebook Lives, okay, and they were an hour long. That took two days to prepare for because I like to make them fun, complicated, take people somewhere. And I worked somewhat on the Newsman album. That was part of the 12 years. Yeah, it was part of that. Yeah, that's funny.

Jay Franze: 31:59

How hard was it for you to adjust, not being on the road?

John McEuen: 32:04

It just kind of went by I did what I could. Yeah, it was tough. Then it let up.

Jay Franze: 32:17

Let's take a second to talk about. You've written a couple books. Now let's talk about the Life I've Picked. The Life I've Picked. Look at you, you've got it right there.

John McEuen: 32:30

This is a book that is a story of my life, starting from being a kid and going through playing with Leon Russell and Roy Acuff and Steve Vai. Oh really, it was Steve Vai and we did doing banjos once at a backyard benefit and I said, steve, would you play with me on this? It's doing banjos. I don't know it. I said just repeat what I'm doing, only do it better.

Jay Franze: 33:06

The sad part is he's capable of doing it right there on the fly.

John McEuen: 33:09

He won, he won, he won, he won. He's a nice guy, he's a friend.

Jay Franze: 33:19

Never had a chance to work with him, but he's one that I would like to Super. Talented guy, yeah.

John McEuen: 33:25

He's got a room with 200 guitars in it. Jeez Anyway, of room with 200 guitars in it, geez Anyway. Yeah, I tried to tell stories as truthful as I could.

Jay Franze: 33:42

Is there anything in that book that you wouldn't have imagined that would end up in the book?

John McEuen: 33:48

Hmm, there's some. The book Hmm. Hmm, there's some things that didn't end up in the book. But there you go, let's talk about those. But, uh, I, I think the, the, uh, the two Japanese girls and the white girl, just uh, she didn't like American, she liked Japanese guys and she was a blonde surfer type, but one was a hot rock and roll japanese, another was a kimono, wearing conservative, traditional, like.

John McEuen: 34:29

I mean, this is the way what she played, right. And then there was a surfer girl and the three of us went out on town one night me with these three, I think I'm turning red and we went to discos and went to like four or five different places and I had one on each arm and the Japanese girl in the kimono was following 10 feet behind. You know, we go in and sit down and she'd bring a drink, and it was just like I was a high roller. I was there producing an album on a guy spending 10 days and that was really fun. We just had a lot of fun. It was fun to try and tell a joke. I'd tell a joke to the girl, the surfer girl, and she'd translate it to Japanese and then that one would say it in Japanese as this one and she'd say it back to the girl and then she'd say it back to me. It would come out totally wrong, and it was just funny you spent over 50 years with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

Jay Franze: 35:48

You got any stories from there? Yeah, you do.

John McEuen: 35:55

Yeah.

Jay Franze: 35:58

What's one that you can share.

John McEuen: 36:01

Well, jeff was cantankerous, you might say, or he was a curmudgeon, and then again so was I a lot of times. Sherbert, sherbert, sherbet.

Jay Franze: 36:14

Do you like Sherbert? Sherbert, yes, sir.

John McEuen: 36:16

You call it.

Jay Franze: 36:16

Sherbert. Yeah, sherbert, my dad you know I would always eat ice cream. He'd eat Sherbert.

Tony Scott: 36:22

Sherbert. You said Sherbert, yes.

Jay Franze: 36:25

E-R-T. Yes, that's the way it was pronounced in Boston. Yeah, but they don't pronounce anything correctly, so In the world of Jeff. It's pronounced Sherbet, Sherbet, okay.

John McEuen: 36:36

Spelled B-E-T. Yeah, so we're at the Driscoll Hotel in Austin. One time and I said, jeff, you want to have lunch? He goes, yeah, sure. I said, well, I'll see you downstairs in a half hour, and he was, of course, 10 minutes late. He was always late and so I had time to look at the menu and I noticed on the back it was spelled S-H-E-R-B-E-R-T, and then one page in it was spelled S-H-E-R-B-E-T, so it had both of them on there and I waited. Hey, jeff, you know, figure out what you're going to have. Yeah, I'm going to have a little club sandwich and then some sherbet and he's.

John McEuen: 37:25

I waited until he was looking at the menu, at the page with it spelled S-H-E-R-B-E-T. So you might want to order Sherbet, because then you'll get what you want. I'm going to order Sherbert. And I said I bet you $50 on that menu. It's spelled S-H-B-E-R-T, and he's looking at it spelled B-E-T. Right, and he goes, you're on. And I said, okay, turn to the back page. And there it is B-E-R-T. Herbert. I said you owe me $50. No, I don't, it's spelled wrong. I don't care if it's spelled wrong or right. No-transcript. Look, if we have the guy bring out the container from the back. He brings out the container. It's spelled B-E-R-T and still he's not going to pay.

John McEuen: 38:42

So thankfully, this happened in the late 70s. 20 years go by. The internet comes along right. Whatever You're still along, right, whatever You're still looking for your $50. And I put the story out, which is in the book. One of them is described in the book. I said, and he didn't pay the $50. He showed that he knew how to weasel out of a debt. And I defined weasel and put it anyway. And so I make a little internet thing out of that. And a few days later Jeff's on the bus. He goes, take that story down. What it's? The absolute truth. You didn't want to pay and you had to pay. You don't want to pay, you're a weasel. And the next day you shoot $50 and here's your money.

Jay Franze: 39:37

Here's your money Now take the story down.

John McEuen: 39:39

Yeah, only took 20 years to get the money Right, but you got it, yeah. So there's stories like that, and there's stories that aren't dirt bad for sure, like the Japanese girls.

Jay Franze: 40:00

So what's next? How are you going to create your next story?

John McEuen: 40:04

I don't know. I'm going to go out and see what's out there.

Jay Franze: 40:10

Well, as you look back now, like I mentioned earlier, I mean, you've accomplished so many things.

John McEuen: 40:14

I appreciate you saying that, but I really feel like I haven't. But I've accomplished a few things. Yes, yeah.

Jay Franze: 40:23

I would say a few. I mean, you've won all sorts of awards. You've played on, you know, not just one or two albums, I mean a lot of albums. 46, I believe, is what your website said. You have seven solo albums. You've played 11,000 concerts to date. You've got the ones coming up. You've had a career. So as you look back at that career, what do you hope people take away from it? Me, you Take me away.

John McEuen: 40:53

I mean something that I've made. It'd be nice to think that the newsman is sitting in somebody's house or they listen to some of the stories, or you know that some of these, yeah, I got this recording once of a guy telling this story about the cremation of Sam McGee and it was really neat. It had fire and wind and dogs and along with his story and it made me want to be recording stuff. So maybe I would influence somebody.

Jay Franze: 41:29

Do you think like that? Do you think about legacy?

John McEuen: 41:33

Yes, I do. Yeah, Trying to keep up with myself is hard Right now. From that heart attack I quit playing for two and a half months. I'm getting back into it, but I'm not there yet.

Jay Franze: 41:51

Did that put things into perspective?

John McEuen: 41:55

I don't know about perspective, but it took care of a bunch of things Like so what Do? What you want? I'm just glad to be here, right? Yeah, I have some things that, yeah, I don't know.

Jay Franze: 42:24

It's like All right, sir. Well, we do this thing here we call Unsung Heroes, where we take a moment to shine the light on somebody who's worked behind the scenes or somebody who may have supported you along the way. Do you have anybody you'd like to shine a little light on?

John McEuen: 42:38

Well, the newsman is one guy, rodney Dillard's another guy. Rodney Dillard has been very influential in my life. Steve Martin has been a constant inspiration to me, even in high school he was always working on something. In college he was always working on his bits. He was insecure a comedian, you know, he was like what am I going to do for myself? I can't do that. I ought to do this. What do I? Where's that other page? You know, he was just constantly scrambling.

Jay Franze: 43:19

Constantly working on his craft.

John McEuen: 43:24

I don't know if he thought of it that way or not, but yeah, she was. Steve is known to collect art. He's known to be a good art buyer. He can buy a picasso for a million and sell it for three million in three months, kind of thing, you know. He emailed me last year look what I found on ebay. I figured it's going to be some kind of painting or an old tangible. It was a very excited email leading into this picture of the sign that was on the magic shop in fantasy, merlin's magic shop. And he bought it and he has it up in his house somewhere and he was just so happy to get that I said, oh man, it's like real humanizing, you know, okay, and ever since his daughter came along he's become a nicer person.

Jay Franze: 44:27

Was he not a nice person at the beginning? No, no, a nicer person.

John McEuen: 44:31

Nicer okay, he was nice, but he was. He didn't have a good family situation Went to his house three different times when we were growing up and his mother said one thing to me or to us Would you boys like some cookies? His mother said one thing to me or to us Would you boys like some cookies? Well, sure, mrs Martin, thank you. She brought in a plate of cookies. That was it, you know. Then his father, never congratulatory or anything. I'm standing at the premiere of the Jerk never congratulatory or anything. I'm standing at the premiere of the jerk, which my brother produced. Oh really, I didn't know that. Well, he produced several Steve Martin movies as well as managed them.

John McEuen: 45:22

I'm standing between Carl Reiner and Steve's father, mr Martin, and uh, somebody comes up to Carl Reiner, cause he was the director, and he says hey, carl, congratulations. At the end of the screening of the movie which was in Westwood in Hollywood. It was a big deal, it was a big screening, it was a big. You must be really proud of a good job. Yeah, thanks, a lot is steve's father, um, mr barton. Oh, mr martin, you must be really proud of your son. And mr martin says well, he ain't no chaplain.

John McEuen: 46:01

oh, that's rough oh, uh, okay, well, he ain't no chaplain, it's like, it's just like.

Jay Franze: 46:10

That's the way he was it's going to make it hard to grow up like that he was jealous.

John McEuen: 46:16

They never talked.

Jay Franze: 46:18

I guess we should also thank your wife, right?

John McEuen: 46:20

I mean, she's saving your life and all well, if I was thanking somebody, I should have started with her.

Jay Franze: 46:27

But yes, I thank my wife expressly because it was her quick thinking and her good decisions that did save my life a big thanks to john for taking the time to share his stories with us and thank you for taking the time to hang with me here. I really do appreciate it if you know anyone that would enjoy this episode please be sure to pass it along. You can do that and find the links to everything mentioned over at jayfranze. com/ episode 85. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.

Tony Scott: 47:09

Thanks for listening to The Jay Franze Show. Make sure you visit us at jayfranze. com. Follow, connect and say hello.