Tony Scott: 0:13

Welcome to The Jay Franze Show, a behind-the-curtain look at the entertainment industry, with insights you can't pay for and stories you've never heard. Now here's your host, Jay Franze.

Jay Franze: 0:42

Well, hello, hello, hello and welcome to the show. I am Jay Franze and this is your backstage pass to the music industry. This week we get to talk with a legendary band. We get to talk with Terry, Ray, and Billy, otherwise known as McBride and the Ride. We'll talk to them about what it was like working with Nashville's producer Tony Brown, their time in the recording studio with Chuck Ainley, and we'll talk about some of the wild times that happened behind the scenes.

Jay Franze: 1:13

Now they are not only amazing musicians, they are truly country music legends, and I can't wait to talk with them tonight. So if you would like to join in comment or fire off any questions, please head over to jfranzycom. Now let's get started. Let's just start local Nashville. What was it like working with Tony Brown? Let's just start local Nashville.

Billy Thomas: 1:33

What was it like working with Tony Brown? Oh my goodness.

Terry McBride: 1:37

Like a dream come true for me.

Billy Thomas: 1:38

Yeah, it was All three of us. We all knew him previously, and so when he asked us to be a part of a band, we all, I think, jumped in. It was a pretty easy decision.

Ray Herndon: 1:52

Hey, tony, from playing with Lyle Lovett. We did Lyle's first record out here in Arizona and you went to ASU. Jay, I understand I did. Yes, sir, there was a studio out here called Chetan Recording Studio and the band I was with met Lyle in Luxembourg. Lyle was coerced to come here and do some sides by the band in Billy Williams and he did so and we recorded those songs with him and Tony Brown picked Lyle up and signed him to MCA. And the next year Tony came out to Scottsdale and did these demos for the Pontiac record and I got to play on all that stuff.

Ray Herndon: 2:33

And after a couple of years I started touring with Lyle. And Tony gave me a call out of the blue when he found out that I wasn't going to tour with Lyle because I wanted to kind of pursue my own thing here and, you know, do my own solo thing and write songs and all that stuff. And Tony said, man, I hear you're not going out with Lyle this summer. And I said, man, I hear you're not going out with Lyle this summer. And I said, yeah, I'm going to kind of work on me. I've done Lyle a couple, three, four years. At that point I think I'll just work on my own career. And he said well, man, let me tell you what I've been working on. I met a guy in Austin, texas that I think has some songs that would be a great direction for a band and thought of you and I thought it would be a great opportunity for you. I know you want to do more than just being lyle's band. And I said, well, absolutely, this is tony brown calling me out of the blue and I'd gotten to work with him on, you know, some of the wild stuff and the pontiac record and all that. So I knew his style and certainly respected him. And, uh, after that conversation I said said, well, count me in. And he said well, are you going to go out with Lyle? I said, well, yes, I will, I'll go out with Lyle.

Ray Herndon: 3:40

This summer I went with Lyle and I met Terry that summer and I remember we met at the Paramount Theater in Austin, texas, and Terry came to the show and we hit it off and we were very excited young, you know to have this opportunity, tony Brown calling us. And next thing, I know he flies Terry and I to Nashville I was living in Arizona at the time flies Terry and I to Nashville. We meet Billy. Billy was part of Emily Harris's hot band and played with many other artists but that's how Tony knew Billy and he played on the Hillbilly Rock record and played with Vince Gill. So the three of us met and we met a guy named Steve Fishel who was the steel player.

Ray Herndon: 4:24

We got together in a rehearsal studio at SIR, played cemetery songs, great songs. We hit it off musically and we found out that we had this three-part harmony thing that was almost brotherly and that was kind of a just a bonus to the package. And Tony paraded a bunch of people in there to hear this first day of rehearsal, literally, I think. Guys, we rehearsed three hours, it seems like maybe, maybe three or four songs, including, I think, can I count, you and every and Every Step of the Way, and maybe Felicia, I don't know, but we had these harmonies and they just came naturally. Sorry, my dog's going crazy. Tony said you guys have a deal if you want one, literally the first day. So working with Tony was just a dream come true for me and the other guys I'm sure as well. So that's kind of how it started.

Jay Franze: 5:14

I'd say Tony's one of the biggest producers in Nashville, but he's really one of the biggest producers in the world.

Billy Thomas: 5:19

A lot of stuff, a lot of important stuff, absolutely Just a little bit A career that's unmatched at this point.

Jay Franze: 5:26

Yeah Well, terry is Ray's account of that time. Is that accurate to you?

Terry McBride: 5:32

That's accurate for sure. Our our paths crossed early on. I was playing with Delbert McClinton and Ray and some of the guys had come out to see Delbert before and had no idea we'd end up years later in this band. But, yeah, met Ray and Austin and then I was in Nashville and Billy and I went over to Elliston Place, a cool soda shop. It was one of our first meetings before we jumped in and started rehearsing.

Terry McBride: 6:00

But I actually got a rejection letter from Tony Brown. I was living in Lubbock. My friend Wally Moyers took some photos of me standing like this, like a goober. I sent a cassette and then I mailed it to tony brown. He was my favorite producer, you know he produced, you know, steve earl's first record, lyle's first record, worked with patty loveless steve warner, you know, the list just went on and on, not to mention vince and everybody else at mca. But so, uh, I got back the standard form rejection letter. It had the logo letterhead at the top. It was typed At this particular time, we don't feel like you're the right fit, or whatever it said. Then it was signed by Tony Brown. At that point that was the biggest thing that had ever happened to me in my life. It was being rejected.

Terry McBride: 6:51

I took that letter to Tony years later, later I still had it. I still have it to this day. It's a little like a scrapbook kind of thing and there it is. But uh, yeah, I was, you know, I was struggling, I was busy, I was active player singer in austin and staying busy but starving, you know, just not making any left delbert to pursue songwriting more in depth and met a couple of great songwriters in Austin and that really changed everything for me. We started recording some cool tracks with cool people, our friends, you know, wonderful players from Steven Bruton. We had a cast of characters and cutting it all over there at Arlen studio, which is a great studio to this day in the old Austin Opera House building.

Terry McBride: 7:35

What was it like there? It was just a hotbed. Eric Johnson had the studio around the corner and he was in there all the time. Who? And then Stevie Ray Vaughan would be over at Ray Henning's trying out amps and guitars. So Austin was a wonderful time to be alive and you know making the rounds at that particular time it was really a hotbed of stuff. The Badness Thunderbirds were really happening and Bill Carter and Ruth Ellsworth kind of took me in.

Terry McBride: 8:07

I got in a band out of leaving Delbert I went and auditioned for this band called Bill Carter and the Blame and Bill was getting ready to head out and do a Stevie Ray Vaughan tour opening and I got the gig and off. We went touring with Stevie one of my heroes, you know and it was just unbelievable and we got to know him and hang out and play. We'd come out and play Crossfire with him every night because Bill and Ruth co-wrote that song and so we got off that tour. Bill and ruth just took me in. They said, man, I like these demos. I played him some home demos, me playing bass guitar, everything. They were just on a little four track cassette mixer. It was, oh my god, little test cam, oh, exactly what it was.

Terry McBride: 8:49

And I was, you know, trying my best to figure that out, and I had had a friend that kind of programmed some drums. You know it was horrible. But they said, man, we like your voice, we like these songs, let's write some country stuff, you know. And we did. And then that next trip, after writing and recording a bunch of songs, led us to Nashville and led us right to Tony Brown. We just caught him on the right day. He's like man, I dig this, I'm going to come to Austin and if you're the real deal, he said I'm going to sign you to a record deal. And I went oh God, I hope I'm the real deal. Whatever that is, I'm tired of starving, you know. So we hit it off much like what Ray and I did when we met. You know, we, I hit it off with Tony's's like I'm gonna sign you.

Terry McBride: 9:34

And he had the idea for the band. Like ray said, he knew billy and he had been making a little laundry list of people he would do that for like a dinner party. You know he put the perfect guests together. He was always producing something. You know whether, even if it was just a get together at his house. It had to be the right chemistry and he's way into that. You, that's how he prepares for a session. It has to be the right steel player.

Terry McBride: 9:56

He was really brilliant like that. You know, it meant a lot to him to have the right pieces in place and then he didn't second guess himself on much either when he made a decision like that's going on the record, you know oh man, I love that. I love that man, I love that. I love that man, I love that. You've got to do that again. He would get excited and he would be'd written at the time and he was very supportive. There weren't a lot of restrictions or anything put on us. We listened to outside material. We found a couple of hits that way, but he was very encouraging.

Ray Herndon: 10:42

He was fun to work with in the studio too, like Terry's saying, as far as working, we all played and sang on these records. We had a few outside steel players and this and that come in and play on some tracks, like you know, unknown guys like Buddy Emmons and Mark O'Connor that was the majority of us as the rhythm section. But you know, tony was very hands-on as a producer and I remember many times sitting with him at the console, just he and I I'm not sure where the other guys were, I think comp and a vocal or whatever and you know he was always very what do you think of that? What do you think? Do you like that, you know? And so I felt very involved with this guy.

Ray Herndon: 11:25

That that's, you know, legendary producer at the time and the president of MCA records. So we were in good company there, no doubt, and I definitely learned a lot from him in that way, especially and like terry said, his ability to put people together. You know he would say, hey, what do you think about so? And so I think I think it'd be really cool on this record, don't you? You know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, whatever you say. But yeah, you couldn't help but agree because he was right, but, um, in a very exciting time for sure well, billy, let me ask you.

Jay Franze: 11:59

We talk about tony, and ray mentioned the the instance, three-part harmonies you guys did at the beginning. Did you know? You had something special at that time uh, yeah.

Billy Thomas: 12:09

Yeah, the music came together so quick like Ray said, three hours and we had rehearsed these five songs and then the vocal thing just kind of fell in and then it just happened that I sing tenor and then Ray is a natural pretty much a natural baritone. He's got a great falsetto as well. So we started messing with these parts and just trying to make to hear the melodies and tighten them up and it happened super quick. Also, it was very easy.

Ray Herndon: 12:42

We've all met so much with other bands. It just happened that these three voices were three voices that just mixed really well together.

Billy Thomas: 12:52

And I don't mean any disrespect for these two guys, but I don't remember it at all that way. I remember coming down I-40, and I picked them each up at a truck stop. I brought them to Nashville. I brought them to Nashville, showed them how the ropes of the whole system Introduced them to Tony Brown.

Jay Franze: 13:11

That's the way I heard it.

Billy Thomas: 13:12

And that's the way I remember Jay. I'm sorry, that's it. That's the band Right there.

Terry McBride: 13:18

We're sorry Jay Billy goes off like this. It's late.

Billy Thomas: 13:23

Do I need my medicine, Terry? Do I need my medicine again?

Ray Herndon: 13:28

The whip comes up from the side of the stage, billy.

Billy Thomas: 13:33

Oh goodness.

Terry McBride: 13:35

He's a little delusional because he's just recovering from his four nights at the Ryman with Vince Gill.

Ray Herndon: 13:42

Yeah, we were a crappy band too.

Terry McBride: 13:46

Four nights, four hours a night, four-hour show each night.

Billy Thomas: 13:51

I didn't tell him to do that, that's for damn sure it was fun though. That's awesome.

Jay Franze: 13:57

It was a fun hang, terry, you mentioned writing songs and being a songwriter, and I know you guys. Billy just said too that you guys did five songs when you first met up with Tony. Were any of those originals?

Terry McBride: 14:10

Yeah, all of those. They were all originals, all originals, and all of those they were. All of those were all originals, and some that went on to be our first single. Can I count on you? Yeah, it was one of those songs, the title to the, our first album, burning up the road, that was.

Billy Thomas: 14:23

That was one of them, and actually, the very first single was every step of the way, or every step of the way yeah, and I, I think ain't no big deal was one of them. Remember that was yes, that's right.

Terry McBride: 14:32

those those are all songs that we ended up recording. Jay, All of those went on that first record.

Jay Franze: 14:36

So those were that first meeting with Tony.

Terry McBride: 14:39

Yeah, yeah, that was that first meeting.

Jay Franze: 14:41

Well, let's talk about Can I Count on you for a second? Because it's got great piano parts, it's very active on the piano and it's got some cool guitar licks to it.

Terry McBride: 14:55

How did that come about in the studio? Well, the little demos we had had pieces and parts of some of that song and then we just sort of borrowed from what we could. I mean, steven bruten played some really cool licks and then we just sort of made them our own. Whatever we liked, we kept. Whatever we didn't have, we kind of created on the spot, you know, which is just the way it is in the studio. Yeah, that came together pretty quickly. We kind of stuck way it is in the studio. Yeah, that came together pretty quickly. We kind of stuck to those demos in the beginning because that's all we had. Like Burning Up the Road, I know that guitar part was kind of cool and Ray jumped on that. We created that feel and we probably changed some tempos and did some things, tweaked a few things. But those first five or six are basically that was sort of the building blocks of the band. Yeah for sure. Then we grew from there.

Terry McBride: 15:36

Once we had that album, then we realized, well, we were put together as these, all these guys are such great players, they're going to be killer players. It was all about our musicianship, but we had no idea that we were going to have this harmony blend. You know we were just going to work these songs up and put a harmony part somewhere, but blend. You know we were just gonna work these songs up and put a harmony part somewhere, but it turned into a whole different animal. After we released, can I Count On you? And those harmonies were so out front and a big part of our sound moving forward.

Terry McBride: 16:01

So it was all about finding and writing songs that could complement that moving forward. People don't care how great you play there are a lot of great players out there, you know but if you've got something unique as a singer, which happened to be these vocal blend that we had, like this family harmony thing, then all of a sudden we had our own identity a little bit. We didn't sound like everybody else and we didn't, you know, have to just jump up and down and try to tell everybody what great players we were. That was never going to get us anywhere. But a good song and the harmony and it really started to connect with the listeners for sure.

Ray Herndon: 16:39

And it had a four-piece band vibe about it, which it was. It was really a four-piece band. On those records I think the only thing I overdubbed was acoustic guitar and maybe some piano. On that first record especially.

Terry McBride: 16:55

Matt Rawlings. Jay, that's matt playing piano. I can't count on you and tony's got a huge musical background.

Jay Franze: 17:01

I mean, what kind of influence did he have on those players when he went in the studio?

Ray Herndon: 17:05

same well yeah.

Billy Thomas: 17:07

He said, hey, man, this is cool, listen, this guy's got blues and he's he's doing kind of twangy texas stuff. He's got this blues, he's doing kind of twangy Texas stuff, he's got this blues going on. And I heard it immediately and I went there's a whole thing here that I was just kind of getting turned on to Stevie Ray Vaughan, jimmy Vaughan, all of those. It started happening. It was a big growing period for me because I had just moved to Nashville that year 87. There was a whole thing that both Ray and Terry come to find out had been listening to this ZZ Top, all of these early rock bands and playing blues. But it had a country thing about it and I thought, man, that stamp is just me, perfect.

Terry McBride: 17:55

My voice, yeah, yeah.

Billy Thomas: 17:58

But I'm saying, yeah, and then we. But when you guys turn me on to Stevie Ray Vaughan, I mean basically the two of you did on the road out there I just went. Well, now I see where they're coming from their roots. This is not, he's not just Willie Nelson, you know what I'm saying. Or he's not just lyle. They're there we started talking about, you know, diversity and influences, yeah so you're in the studio and you're putting these tracks together.

Jay Franze: 18:23

I mean, you mentioned drums just there. The drums have a very special feel to them, especially on some of these earlier tracks you're discussing, where a lot of times they they start off a little broken down and then they build up as the song goes on yeah and I think even in one of the songs I'm trying to remember the the title of it, but one of the songs had that cross stick action but it sounded almost like a wooden block well, that was of myself and a guy named chuck ainley who engineered a couple of those up front and we started experimenting.

Billy Thomas: 18:54

When I was playing on Hillbilly Rock, we started experimenting with an auxiliary snare drum and, like you, would use a what do you call them sample nowadays. I actually used an acoustic drum and put it out off to my left side and I would reach over and play that drum and I said, chuck, if I use this on my left side, it would give you a discrete channel with a discrete sound. You could affect that however you wanted to it would. He loved it, he thought it was great. So that's the answer to that particular sound that you yeah.

Jay Franze: 19:35

Yeah, that was going out of my mind.

Billy Thomas: 19:37

Oh yeah, exactly.

Terry McBride: 19:39

Yeah, good ears, jay. That's exactly so. Billy had a separate mic snare just for that sort of sound you know that cross-tick thing as opposed to the open snare he would have with the kit, you know. Yeah, we had Chuck Ainley, who's an amazing engineer, on our very first album.

Jay Franze: 19:57

So you go from Tony Brown producing with Chuck Ainley?

Terry McBride: 20:00

as your engineer.

Billy Thomas: 20:02

So you had the B team. The A team fell into place.

Terry McBride: 20:06

That was our first recording, our very first album. Yeah, it was so fantastic that little soundstage backstage. They called it back then that little room was so cool. Chuck's room, yeah, his ssl in the background, that's it and uh, tony worked in there a lot and uh, jimmy bowen would be in the next big room with a with his driver out back.

Terry McBride: 20:26

He'd have his driver in his car waiting and he'd be finishing up those george straight records or whatever back in the day, you know, early when he was still working and running labels and things. It was an amazing time, man. We spent a lot of time because we were just all giddy about whoa, look what we're getting to do. You know, look who we're getting to do it with. I hope I don't screw this up.

Terry McBride: 20:46

Some of the best of the best, oh it was just amazing and we'd all been exposed to some cool stuff. But having an opportunity like that going from players and touring with other people then all of a sudden having a chance to maybe come together and do your own thing we realized how fortunate we were at that particular time to be working with Tony. I had to pinch myself really. I remember Tony went on a trip one time. He's like hey, man, because I was coming to Nashville and just staying a lot, I was riding a lot, guy Clark, and oh my gosh, it was mind blowing, you know. And, uh, I was staying in hotels with our manager later and Tony's like hey, man, come pick me up, I want you to take me to the airport. I'm going to be gone for like three days and you just keep my car. He had like some brand new beautiful Mercedes sedan, you know. And, oh my God, yeah, I dropped him off at the airport, of course. Then I immediately went out and did donuts in the parking lot with it.

Terry McBride: 21:43

But I mean that's what he gets.

Jay Franze: 21:45

So you were the one yeah.

Terry McBride: 21:47

But it was mind-blowing. I realized my life was no longer what it used to be. It was all these things hanging out with Tony and having dinners, with showing up to write with people. I had read their names a hundred times in my dad's billboard magazine, you know, growing up, and here was harlan howard and you know it was costas, it was guy clark. It was like, oh my god, I was. It was a lot. It was stressful because I, I, you know I knew it was an opportunity there and I just didn't want to disappoint anybody, especially myself. You know I really wanted to and um and I'll there and I just didn't want to disappoint anybody, especially myself. You know I really wanted to and I'll be darned if we didn't. You know, hit a couple good licks and end up doing some cool stuff and we're still proud of still playing those songs 35 years later, you know.

Jay Franze: 22:33

Great songs. You mentioned Soundstage and you talk about the driver in the back. Obviously, soundstage big studio. You walk in the front door most of the time, but Chuck Hanley's room was at the back.

Terry McBride: 22:45

Yeah.

Jay Franze: 22:45

And I used to teach at the engineering school behind.

Billy Thomas: 22:49

So we faced the park.

Terry McBride: 22:51

Yeah.

Jay Franze: 22:52

And we'd watch everybody come in and out of that back door.

Terry McBride: 22:54

No, really, that's funny.

Jay Franze: 22:56

So cool. It was very cool, the things you'd see, I think that's still there, Jay.

Billy Thomas: 23:01

I think it's going strong.

Terry McBride: 23:02

Yeah, and the Musicians Union yeah, right next to it, then it used to be Arista Records back there. One night I had my Super Sport, chevelle. We were in there recording and it was raining a little bit. I had this 454 Cal induction and so I burned the tires off of it. It almost ran right through the airstrip building in my muscle car, nice, it was shocking. Even behind the wheel I went, uh-oh, having so much fun right up until I wasn't, that studio definitely put out some major records.

Ray Herndon: 23:38

That little studio there, soundstage, that's where we recorded that first record. That's where we recorded Lyle's Pontiac record as well was Chuck involved in that too? Yeah, chuck did. Uh, I think he did do that one.

Terry McBride: 23:55

Yeah, I believe you, billy. Did you cut that Marty Stewart stuff there too? Yes, yeah, I believe you, billy, did you cut that marty stewart stuff there too?

Billy Thomas: 24:01

yes, yeah, I thought you did, yeah, cut some of the vince vocals there. Yeah, it was. We were a small band.

Terry McBride: 24:07

So that little room was perfect. We just set up in that little tracking room, you know yeah then we would add piano if we needed, or maybe track live with it. You know, but matt was kind of our buddy at the time. Anyway, it was fun having him involved too, and you know, all these years later, here we are.

Ray Herndon: 24:23

Well, chuck isn't in that back studio any longer. However, right prior to covid, we recorded lyle's latest record in that same room. So you know it's expanded. And for lyle's record we had like a 14 piece band in there, you know. So, oh man, I should say crammed in there right. Uh, back in the day you could only get about five pieces at a time how did you fit 14?

Ray Herndon: 24:50

we used to kiss them for the horns out in the extra room out there oh, wow wow, they expanded the drum room so Lyle was in his own drum room, paul Franklin, sam Bush, stuart Duncan, jim Cox and Victor Kraus and I and Dean Parks were all in kind of the same room recording, so it was a big band. But that studio has changed over the years but it was cool to be back in there again and do another record.

Terry McBride: 25:26

Yeah, we I was just there this week doing some work, billy's doing some work we used chuck ainley. We released an ep last year, jay. We used chuck track, the very first tracks for our, you know, sort of comeback record, and we cut that at peter frampton's studio. So that was a thrill and a lot of fun and something cool we got to do, coming, you know, full circle with chuck. All these years later, our first album and our sort of that's all records kind of get us started again. It was.

Jay Franze: 25:51

It was really cool and you cut amarillo sky, didn't you?

Terry McBride: 25:55

we cut that with matt rawlings out of his studio out in Franklin. Yeah, but in the beginning that's part of our EP that's coming out, the live EP Amarillo Sky, no More Crying. Those are the first two singles from the upcoming EP.

Ray Herndon: 26:10

We're bringing them back, jay, they're coming back.

Billy Thomas: 26:14

They're bringing all these memories back. I mean, we're talking a long time ago but it keeps circling back around, like they're both mentioning you know, and here we are. I'm going to work with Matt Robey tomorrow singing backgrounds to try and tie up my part. Everything's done, you know, away from one another anymore. It's with technology we can do it. So we'll mail that off to Ray and he'll tidy his parts up and and bruce bouton will get his on as well.

Terry McBride: 26:43

So living in nashville. That's the beauty of you know people to help you.

Jay Franze: 26:49

It's, it's always been a do you guys ever find yourself in the same room anymore?

Billy Thomas: 26:55

yeah, actually, actually with chuck, when we trapped, we tracked together.

Ray Herndon: 26:59

Yeah, three of us are there always, so but for this live record, because I'm out here in arizona and we recorded it at my club here in scottsdale, handlebar j, which is something my family's owned for 50 years, and the guys that come out over the years to play. And they came out recently and we recorded these songs on a believe it or not an Allen Heath SQ5 board that's just got a great multi-track recording processor in it and this stuff sounded so good. We were like man, we should just work on this stuff, and you know so, with the magic of studio, you can go in there and, of course, tweak things that you didn't. You know, if it didn't sing this part exactly right, you can fix it we had a couple things that bled over the beauty is being able in today's technology.

Ray Herndon: 27:47

As you well know, I can do things here and billy and terry can do things in nashville yeah, and we're touring.

Terry McBride: 27:54

We get to spend a lot of time together, so that that's what we make up for once we get on the road. We we're pretty much a nonstop as far as our traveling and performing, so we still enjoy getting out on the road together. We still enjoy being together and still cutting up and laughing and having fun Like we did 30 something years ago.

Ray Herndon: 28:14

You know, that's never really go out there and play music and laugh a lot Nice.

Jay Franze: 28:18

There should be no laughing involved.

Billy Thomas: 28:21

You were looking for tidbits from us. I was telling actually, a bass player that I worked with for four nights straight, jimmy Lee Sloes, the story about us being in Burbank and Tony Harrell, by the way, terry, who said hello. I was telling them about us being in Burbank and jaywalking and the cops pulling, these cops pulling us over right at NBC and going. You were walking on the red hand.

Terry McBride: 28:54

You were walking and not at the crosswalk.

Billy Thomas: 28:57

We were jaywalking, yeah, and so he said you're not going to be laughing about this later when you get this ticket in the mail. Yeah, it was like.

Terry McBride: 29:05

it was like expensive back then that was the ace, that was the acm awards oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah and then the next thing we know is like four or five cops. So we for jaywalk was like, oh my god, they're taking this all on walking.

Jay Franze: 29:18

Take that a little serious on bicycles.

Billy Thomas: 29:21

It couldn't have been more humorous.

Terry McBride: 29:23

Here they are on bicycles trying to hold us, you know that was back in like 02 or something, so that fine was steep back then, you know yeah holy cow. Yeah, you know they a lot, of, a lot of severe crime going on out there at jaywalk and they're tracking down on it so they turned their back and we were going oh, big law enforcement yeah, we're. We're trying to joke around about it. We thought we just are you serious? Yeah, they were very serious about it yeah, that's too funny.

Jay Franze: 29:53

Um, terry, you mentioned going on the road. I want to talk about that here in a second, but before I do, what are you guys looking forward to most about the, the ep itself?

Billy Thomas: 30:03

uh, I guess the fact that people will really I mean the people who have heard us live know what the potential of the band is. But for those who don't, I think that they'll understand what they're getting live from us. And we had so many, not only musicians but fans that came aboard because they went how do you guys get this sound? There's only four of you on stage, or for the majority of the time we were together, it was only four of us, and I think it's because the vocals blend so well and because we all worked out those parts and we all stick with them and we're all sincere about what we do with the arrangements. They haven't really changed too much. We've added some stuff you know what I'm saying on the front or back or something like that, but not so it's a live show and it's a live show and we pride ourselves and really rock and hard with country music what I was going to say earlier.

Ray Herndon: 31:05

When you brought up can I count on you? And we were rehearsing in the studio to begin with with this band, is you know, we really released a couple singles that were more up-tempo songs and they didn't, for whatever the reason at the time. They just didn't connect on country radio like, um, felicia and and maybe, uh, every step of the way, every step of the way right, and they connect with the, with the crowd. So when they released, can I count on you? It did and they were like hmm, and so next thing, you know, almost with that that, with exception of Love on the Loose, I think pretty much all those singles were ballads and I think the harmonies lend themselves really well to that stuff too. So that accentuated the harmonies. But we are also a rockin' band. So I was just going to say, with this live EP, I think it kind of shows the rockin' side of this band as well, yeah, the ballad side. It shows a little side of this band as well. Yeah, well, it's side.

Terry McBride: 32:00

So it shows a little bit of muscle that we always had. That's what fans always commented on. It's like, wow, you guys are totally different live Cause they just do those yeah Rock and those videos from CMT back in the day you know it was it was great. I mean, it was success in radio. But there was another side of us that we enjoyed. You have to have that in order to just. I mean, 90 minutes of Ballads are great, I love them, but you have to mix it up, right?

Billy Thomas: 32:26

Of course. Yeah, we start our show with Burning Up the Road, which was on our first album. We end our show with a song called Cream of the Crop, which we all love. The fans are. We end our show with a song called Cream of the Crop, which we all love. The fans are. We don't end up. Most of the time we do it as an encore, and right before that we do this song called Just One Night, which is usually the show closer for that, and that's the epitome of big harmony ballad that we go to this rockin' thing. So it's a well-worked out show and I think they'll get.

Jay Franze: 33:01

That's what we hope to portray when we get out there, how does it feel to be back on the road?

Terry McBride: 33:06

It's kind of like picking up right where we left off. Really, I mean, we don't have the big tour bus anymore. That's the biggest change. But you know, these days that type of touring has completely changed. You know, if you don't have a 12 month lease on a bus, then you're not going to get a bus or you're going to get a leftover bus. You know, then you're going to be on socials, broken down on the side of the road in a bus. You know, I see that a lot.

Terry McBride: 33:31

So unless you're big time on a tour, that can, you know, support that sort of overhead. There's no way for us to do it. We're just we're hand-picking good shows. We're not into filling our calendar up just to be on the road. We don't want to do everything. We want to do some some good gigs and some things that make sense. Most of what we do goes back into our company so we can continue to you tour record promote. That's where we're at right now.

Terry McBride: 34:01

We've all made a conscious effort to focus on how we want to operate, how we want to do things and, uh, you know, the shows are getting a little better and all that stuff is good like we hope. And, yeah, moving forward, we'll see what happens. But you know this year was was good. We did some interesting festivals and fairs and still have some more coming. We have some hard. You know this year was was good. We did some interesting festivals and fairs and still have some more coming. We have some hard. You know hard ticket venues that we're selling well and that's great to see, and uh, uh, we've got a couple of those coming up and so it's a mix bag, but it's good stuff. So we fly, we send a big box truck, we have our front of house, our crew guy that also does tour managing and, uh, it's lean and mean four-piece van it's going to be a little easier to travel like that, isn't it?

Terry McBride: 34:46

so much. Yeah, the routing is great. We land, we get a suburban. It holds all of us and bruce spout and our steel player. We head on, we get to the room. You know, we go back and forth the next day. We usually get some sleep, we drive whatever to the next day. We laugh and cut up along the way or talk about our songs, our set, that sort of thing a lot too.

Ray Herndon: 35:08

Proppin'.

Terry McBride: 35:10

Buc-ee's.

Billy Thomas: 35:10

Yes, Proppin' Buc-ee's a couple of times Of course A steel player.

Terry McBride: 35:15

We give him crap. First time he ever saw one. He went in bought like 17 pounds of jerky.

Jay Franze: 35:19

yeah yeah, the place is like its own city, oh my god he regrets it, he regrets that he did it.

Terry McBride: 35:28

So now we beat him up, we do, we remind him they're having like jerky special today, whatever you know armadillo jerky.

Billy Thomas: 35:37

Yeah, that's what you need.

Jay Franze: 35:37

Tell me about that you guys bust each other's cookies when you're on the road. Oh oh no, tell me your favorite story we're.

Terry McBride: 35:46

We're a milder form of what we used to do. We got away with murder back then because there was no iPhone. You know right no evidence, there was no way no way to document all of our nakedness that we were doing. We thought it was so funny.

Ray Herndon: 35:59

That might be a good thing. Billy would have his own X-rated channel by now.

Terry McBride: 36:04

Oh my gosh, You'd have to just put a bar over the whole video.

Billy Thomas: 36:08

You see, I don't have to say anything. Jay, Listen to this.

Terry McBride: 36:15

One of our favorite memories. This was in Sweetwater, texas. We're pulling pranks on each other, going back and forth, and we're at sort of a little mom and pop motel. You know, I'm gonna play this radio thing that night and uh, so we can hear billy in there in the shower. He's like singing his harmony part to whatever you know one of our songs. And we filled up an entire trash can full of ice water, of course, and we dumped it on his head. While he's sitting there, he just bolts out of the shower, chases us into the hallway and then we lock him out into the hallway. He's out there.

Terry McBride: 36:54

So we got back next time Behind the machine.

Billy Thomas: 37:03

And then what happened, Billy? So I'm in the hallway and there's one soda machine in the hallway and I try and lodge myself into a corner of that to keep myself, Because a family comes. Lo and behold, a family comes, A family. And there I am completely trying to just pry. I'm still, you know, every bit of me sticking out. Oh, Billy.

Terry McBride: 37:30

Billy, I think you won't. Did they recognize you?

Billy Thomas: 37:33

No, they didn't recognize me, thank goodness.

Terry McBride: 37:37

It looks like the guy McBride on the ride, but more pale he looks more pale.

Billy Thomas: 37:44

So there's two parts to this story. You can defend yourself, oh man. And so they give me a towel. I go back in, we laugh, we end up we have to go home to Nashville. No, no, no, no, go on. You gave me the towel.

Jay Franze: 38:02

Come on, terry, you had your moment.

Terry McBride: 38:04

You left out. The family gave you the towel.

Billy Thomas: 38:07

The family gave me the towel. That's right, they did. The family gave you the towel. Oh, the family gave me the towel. That's right, they did. Oh, yeah, so we do our, we do our little radio tour at that time and then we have to go home. Well, we're gonna go on tnn on the ralph emory show, yeah, and so we're all three sitting there in a panel and he's talking and he goes whoa, uh, billy, uh, I hear you were caught naked in a hotel hallway in texas and I'm going. Who in the hell put these guys up to this? To have ralph emery asked me this? You're just sitting there. Have Ralph Emery ask me this?

Terry McBride: 38:51

You're just sitting there, yeah, I'll expose the gift kept giving Television gold.

Billy Thomas: 38:57

Billy oh man.

Terry McBride: 39:01

You said your wife didn't even know the story, that she saw it on television.

Billy Thomas: 39:03

Yeah, oh, I have to hear that on Ralph Emery yeah.

Terry McBride: 39:06

Yeah.

Billy Thomas: 39:09

That was crazy.

Terry McBride: 39:11

So good.

Jay Franze: 39:12

All right, Terry, as we talk about that, can you tell me what a shiitake mushroom is?

Terry McBride: 39:19

Oh man, now where did you hear that story?

Jay Franze: 39:22

Oh, I have my sources.

Terry McBride: 39:24

You do have some deep sources. That's interesting. That would almost be like a brooks and dunn connection. Is that where that comes from ray your kettle is?

Terry McBride: 39:34

I'll tell you here, but go ahead with your story first yeah, that's that stems from my motorcycle wreck back in the day and uh, an injury that I uh I was, uh actually I was on a head-on uh motorcycle wreck you know, typical motorcycle wreck. Someone didn't see me, you know, of course, and pulled right out in front of me. So I ended up in the trauma center, and it's a place you don't want to be. It was, like me, a young Amish kid had been run over by a wagon. I mean, that's the kind of people you're in the trauma center with. Kid had been run over by a wagon. I mean, that's the kind of people you're in the trauma center with. So it was anyway. I'd lost a lot of blood during that. I did a lot of internal damage, had a lot of problems, broken bones and shoulders and my kidney was bleeding out inside, which was painful and a little scary, but I had no idea the effect it had on the rest of my body.

Terry McBride: 40:36

So, anyway, I had to have a catheter, they told me, which I'd never had before. So this beautiful nurse is wanting to. You know, she asked me I can do it or I can have a male nurse do it. You know, I'm hooked up. I've got broken fingers. I'm hooked up here. I've got, I've got morphine going in me. You know, my wife is here, the preacher from my little country church. I don't know if he was there to say the last rites or what over me.

Terry McBride: 41:05

But he was there, and so when she left the room I thought, oh no, she's going to come back and have to deal with me, and I hadn't even thought about any of my personal areas other than what I could see. So anyway, I kind of got my gown opened a little bit, and, to my dismay and shock and horror, my certain parts of me were smaller than I'd ever seen it before, and so I likened it to a shiitake mushroom, because so here, jay, here I am All of a sudden my monitor starts going off my blood pressure.

Terry McBride: 41:42

I'm about to stroke out. I'm so shocked at what I'm seeing and my wife is like that nurse doesn't care. I said no, but I do all right this is. This hurts worse than my lacerated kidney at the moment. You know it's like.

Jay Franze: 41:59

So yeah, that was uh oh, mercy, I'm almost sorry, I asked well and I kept it very pg.

Terry McBride: 42:06

Usually I can go into great detail, but I was trying to think of some way to get the story out there but yet spare a few people.

Jay Franze: 42:14

All right, ray your turn. What's your wildest story from the road?

Ray Herndon: 42:19

Oh boy, Well, you know, probably the ones that I can't remember are the ones that are the wildest. I just remember we drank a bit more than we probably needed to in those years.

Terry McBride: 42:36

Not all of us drank a lot back then.

Ray Herndon: 42:39

Yeah, no, terry didn't drink at that time.

Terry McBride: 42:42

I was a sober guy.

Ray Herndon: 42:44

Nice. Yeah, there was a lot of them, jay, but I do remember one that always comes around to haunt me quite often, even to this day, is I got a little, I'd had a few shots of tequila, I know 20 airline bottles of Jose Cuervo and you start drinking and they go down like water. Next thing, you know, I said something to Terry about a girl came up at that time and and I started to say, terry, that'll never work. And it came out that'll natal. And he picked right up on it and it became that'll, daddle, naddle. And he picked right up on it and it became daddle, naddle, faddle, waddle, paddle, daddle.

Billy Thomas: 43:32

Yeah.

Ray Herndon: 43:33

You know, you just lose all sense of tone ability after so many shots of. Jose Cuervo.

Terry McBride: 43:41

We still use that, jay. We're still calling it daddle naddle, faddle daddle. But these guys, they had a couple shots one night and we all decided it'd be a great idea to bungee jump after this oh god this fair day that we just played. I'm the only guy that hadn't been drinking, you know so, but I would do all the filming back in the day. I have some amazing footage on the bus oh yeah, he does amazing.

Billy Thomas: 44:05

Yeah, it's amazing.

Terry McBride: 44:06

it's pretty incredible. I mean some incredible stuff us out with billy Ray Cyrus and 80,000 people. I mean you know that whole little jump and just all kinds of stuff and you know all kind of fun things on the bus. Yeah, we had a lot of fun back in the day. Well documented now.

Jay Franze: 44:26

Yeah, he was the nicest guy.

Terry McBride: 44:29

Billy Ray Billy.

Jay Franze: 44:29

Ray yeah.

Terry McBride: 44:30

Still, still is such a nice guy.

Billy Thomas: 44:33

He would also catch people at the wrong times. I was sick after a gig and I said you got to stop the bus. I can't use the bathroom on the bus. So the driver said we'll go around there. Said there's a we're pulling. Well, go around there. So there's a we're pulling a trailer. Go around and do your business between the trailer.

Terry McBride: 44:55

There I am.

Billy Thomas: 44:56

There I am, Jay, I'm squatting and around the corner comes these two and all I see is a light.

Terry McBride: 45:04

All I see is a video light and I'm just yeah, Jay, I used a nice sepia tone that night too. It was really good.

Jay Franze: 45:12

Just send me the footage, Terry, and we'll put it up with the show. It's just B-roll. Can you edit that in A little bit in?

Terry McBride: 45:20

between Billy talking.

Billy Thomas: 45:22

He thinks he's a cinematographer. Now there's the label.

Jay Franze: 45:28

Billy, I'm still Billy, Just be glad you didn't have the iPhone. That's all for now. There's the label Billy, I'm still.

Billy Thomas: 45:32

Billy Still looking for it. We had wonderful times. We had some great employees as well, and some of those guys got caught in the crossfire as well.

Terry McBride: 45:42

We were going down the road early one morning, jay, we had this cool bus. It used to be the Judd's bus. Then our manager and Florida coach coach, they painted it. We got this big double axle trailer. We painted it same colors our bus, like it's sort of theme.

Terry McBride: 45:57

you know this right strike thing that went all the way. It was so cool. We were like, oh my god, we got it. We got our eagle out here, we got our trailer, and so I got up early that morning. For some reason I never did sleep well back then. So got up and, uh, our our merch guy, mike, my old high school buddy. He was the relief driver, so he just sat down. Sun's coming up, he's gonna drive for a while. The driver went to the bunk. I'm just sitting there in the you know will well, talking and then all of a sudden he goes trailer's off and I went what? He went the trailer's off, so the trailer had come off of the ball, broke the chains and now it's flying right down the interstate along, yeah, right alongside us, and we slowed down and watched it.

Terry McBride: 46:45

It went for a mile or two. It just kept on going. It was so balanced, it just rode for a long time it's past us. We got behind it. It slowly went to the side, got to the uh, you know, to the shoulder, got down into the dish and then the tongue hit. The whole thing flipped over and kind of cracked open when we managed to salvage everything.

Jay Franze: 47:06

Did you lose?

Terry McBride: 47:08

No, it was packed so tightly that it really a couple cases came apart. But a local fire department came and helped us load everything back into our bus and then we left that trailer. We never saw it again. That's the last time. We just left it on the side of the road. Somebody came and picked it up later, but that was it for us.

Jay Franze: 47:27

Well, billy, you mentioned the crew and your team, and we do this thing here we call Unsung Heroes, where we take a moment to shine the light on somebody who works behind the scenes or somebody who may have supported you along the way. Do you guys have anybody you'd like to shine a little light on?

Billy Thomas: 47:41

One of the guys I was referring to was a guy named Tom Hensley. Tommy Hensley and he came aboard soon after we were together and spent a lot of years out there with us and he's just one of those solid people that you could depend on, not only to mix a good show, he had mixed, he had been mixing for the gatlin brothers so he knew, he understood harmony and how to position that in a mix. And he was also. He was. He was a decent road manager and and just a fun loving guy, so he fit really well. So he was out there a long time with us ray, how about you?

Ray Herndon: 48:22

yeah, well, I was gonna say tommy, but we had some great, great guys at the time. We had john medellin who was it was a lean and mean crew, just like we have now our guy now, lee, lee weaver. He lives in uh in texas and we met him years and years ago and got reacquainted with him a couple years ago when we did a show out that way, and so he's become our sound guy. But he does everything he does front of house. He he gets the stage organized and he's just one of those guys that you can count on. You got to have at least one guy like that on your team, or it can be a real nightmare out there. And lee for us is that now, I think, especially. And we have dominic as well and dominic's a great kid and he does a lot for us. Gary can tell you about Dom.

Terry McBride: 49:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, those guys we're fortunate to have some. I mean, lee's the kind of guy we never. He doesn't bring anything to us other than it's all going to be good, it's all going to work, sounds good. You know, he just makes it all happen. If there is a problem, we never know about it, he just takes care of it, keeps us out of that.

Terry McBride: 49:32

Other other people like to bring you right into their misery. Oh my god, on the road right, it can be a long day with people like that. You know, he just goes quietly, goes along, he gets everything done and uh, then at the end of the night everybody comments on you know how good it sounds out front and it's just because he's doing his job. You know, know he does a great job. And then we have a young guy that's a Belmont grad who uh, sort of specializes in social media but also can do some you know, pr management, whatever. He's a wears a lot of hats which when you're you know, small crew, you got to have people like that. He crew, you got to have people like that he'll jump in and drive the box truck.

Terry McBride: 50:08

He'll do whatever you know and uh, get us where we're going and we try to take care of the few people that we do have, because we want to know that we appreciate them. And the same goes with bruce bouton. He's our fourth member. He's he works as hard as we do. He really does. He wants it to be good, he takes a lot of pride and how he comes off sounding on stage and it's important to him after all these years, just like it is for us. So, yeah, we're very fortunate to have the crew that we do. You know, with no more people than we have, we get a lot done.

Jay Franze: 50:42

A big thanks to Terry, Ray, and Billy for taking the time to share their stories with us and, as always, thank you for taking the time to hang with me here. I really do appreciate it. If you know anyone that would enjoy this episode, please be sure to pass it along. You can do that and find the links to everything mentioned over at jayfranze. com/ episode 87. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.

Tony Scott: 51:08

Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to The Jay Franze Show. Make sure you visit us at jayfranze. com Follow, connect and say hello.